How To Rewire Your Nervous System And Reclaim Your Health

Hello. Hello. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Mastering the Menopause Transition Summit 3.0, our third year. Same name, but all new information, all new interviews, all new everything to help you keep upping your hormonal journey.

I am still your host doctor, Sharon Stills. And you know I am thrilled to be here with you. It's my joy and my honor to let you come and listen to these amazing conversations I have.

And today, I know I say it a lot like, oh my God, this is like the most important thing. But like, this is the most important thing. I, I had a patient, back a few months ago, and she was having trouble with anxiety and she said to me, you know, I did primal trust.

And I feel so much better now. And I was like, ooh, primal trust. Let me write that down. I have no idea what that is. And so I learned a lot from my patients.

And I always go look and explore and see what they're doing, especially when it's something that works and then synchronistic about. I think it was like two and a half days later, I went on, a retreat.

I'm part of a holistic leadership council role. And like, right when I get there, I get introduced to this lovely lady who's my guest here. She tells me her name is Kathleen King.

I'm like, oh, nice to meet you. What do you do? And she's like, oh, I created Primal Trust. And I'm like, what? The second I was like, I was just about to Google you.

I have you on my to do list. And so I love when the universe is just so synchronistic. And I really believe that I've always believed that all my life, like, we don't have to stress out.

We can just breathe and relax and let our nervous system regulate. And what we need to know about what belongs to us will always find us. We don't have to push.

And so I had a lovely dinner with her and her partner, and learning was like, it's interesting because I'm like, how did I not know about this? This is like so amazing.

And she's so huge and making such a difference. And so it just goes to show like there's always something new to learn. And so I learned right along with you all.

And so I had to ask her to come and be part of the summit because she is a leading expert in nervous system regulation. And you've heard me say it like all of my chronically ill patients, when I do their heart rate variability, they're all stuck in fight or flight.

They don't have parasympathetic tone. I want to help you balance your hormones. You know, I've got you on that. But we want to put hormones into a regulated terrain, into a regulated body.

And so we're never really important conversation today and gets you all up to speed on nervous system regulation. And what exactly is primal trust. So welcome, welcome, welcome, Kathleen.

I'm so thrilled you're here. Oh, I'm so happy to get to sit with you. We're not in person now, but it's still wonderful to get to converse with you. Yes it is.

It is so nervous system regulation. And it really has like it's finally taking its center stage, right. Like everyone is finally talking about nervous system regulation.

So tell me like your because you have you're training on this. Like how did you create your whole and primal trust and what is that exactly. Yeah. Like yeah.

Well first of all let's define what nervous system regulation is. It's the ability to self regulate your own biology, your ability to directly influence your heart rate your the hormones, the way that your immune system is functioning, your detox system, your digestive system.

We can actually target our nervous system with techniques. So it's self regulation. I got into it because I was very sick, and I was trying all of the medicines and all of the treats, mints that you can think of, and I wasn't able to really regain my function that way.

And I began to really look at what was the root cause going on here. And yes, there was the trauma and emotional stuff, but what happens because of trauma?

Well, your nervous system goes into dysregulation, which makes it hard to heal. It makes it hard to detoxify. And so I started studying techniques of how do I directly target my brain and my nervous system so that my own body can shift in its function.

Even with these illnesses, which were Lyme and mold and digestive issues and all sorts of things like that, and sure enough, by doing brain retraining and nervous system work, which is working with the vagus nerve and movement and practices like that, my symptoms started to change and my function started to change.

And so it really proved to me that when we self-regulate our own biology, we can affect even chronic illness. I love that so much because I was like, oh, I'm even drinking. How?

How perfect. Like I'm drinking out of my bio regulatory medicine mug and I'm all about, you know, bio regulatory medicine. Like one of my most important diagnostic tests that I do is the computerized regulation thermography, which is looking at regulation of the organs and the lymph system.

And it's all about nervous system regulation. So I love, love, love this topic so much. So let's go a little bit. Let's first talk, because I have some notes from you.

Like the cell danger response. So I'd love for you to really just explain that, because I think you hear that, and I'm not sure everyone really knows what that.

So when I was looking for the root cause of why my nervous system was causing my immune system to not work optimally, why couldn't I detoxify? Why with all of these treatments, why am I still not getting better?

Why is my body not absorbing these supplements? Eventually, a handful of years ago, I came across the theory of the cell danger response, coined by Robert Novio, and it really helped me to understand why targeting the autonomic nervous system was the best thing I could do to shift my biology, because the cell danger response simply describes that your cells go into a danger response or a protective response when they have some type of threat, whether it's a pathogen, a toxin, a physical injury, and even emotions.

The cells literally harden. They they go into protection, you know, they keep nutrients from coming in because they're trying to protect against something.

And they also keep toxins from going out and in that danger response, our energy, our mitochondria sends signals to other cells saying, hey, there's danger.

Everybody hunker down and protect. So there isn't the message of let's make energy to thrive. There isn't the message of let's, you know, go after these bugs and let's get things going.

And, and healing. Let's, let's detoxify, let's digest. So the immune system can get dysregulated. Sometimes it can get overactive, sometimes it can get underactive.

Sometimes the detoxification system will just get locked up. Despite taking detoxifying substances or trying to detoxify, sometimes we can't absorb all of the supplements.

And so what has to happen is we have to convince ourselves, our mitochondria, that the threat has passed so that the cells can kind of open up and start receiving nutrients and detoxifying and come back.

So the question is, and this is the question, I think, for all medical doctors right now, how do we get the cells to open up and come back into thriving after the insult, after the pathogen has come in the toxin, etc.?

How do we get the body to clean up that response optimally and return back into health? For some people, their body does that. They move out of cell danger response because maybe the way their nervous system is wired, they're wired to kind of go through a threat and then expect safety in the body follows that along.

The pathogen comes in the body cleans it up and they come back into life. But other people, when they get threat, when they get some type of toxin exposure or viral exposure or whatever, they go into protection and they get stuck there.

And there's a lot of reasons that happens. It can happen from just a tremendous load of toxins and pathogens, etc. but usually there's also an autonomic nervous system component, meaning on some level there stress response is perpetuating that close down protective strategy of the nervous system.

They're stuck there. And so how can we unstick that? How can we come out of that? That's the question. And that's one of the tools that I teach, is teaching people how to move out of cell danger response by targeting the nervous system component.

And I want to talk about that, but I have a question for you. I'm curious as to what you think. For the people who it's harder to come out of it and who's stay stuck, how much of that is correlated to childhood trauma?

A lot, and we know this through looking at the ACS study, the childhood ACS study done by Kaiser Permanente in the late 90s, that depending on the amount of trauma that you've had, is there's a significant correlation to chronic illness, meaning being stuck in a chronic cell.

Danger response. We know that correlation exists. We know that those that get stuck in that chronic illness, or that chronic cell danger response often has a higher level of childhood adverse events.

And and that what that means is that your neural biological development, your nervous system didn't learn how to go from threat to safety. Maybe at some point growing up, there was a lot of threat, and there wasn't a lot of regulation for you to learn how to come out of that and feel safe again.

So your biology doesn't learn how to do that very well. And then you grow up and you get some type of perfect storm. And the biology doesn't know how to feel safe.

And, and you can get stuck. I feel like so much of everything that ails us can really be connected back to, or, you know, whether it's a big T or a little T, right?

Because it doesn't. We we used to think like trauma means like, you know, the big, really hard one is the sexual or the physical. There's so many other ways that we don't feel safe.

France trauma as a child. And I think that just trains are nervous system to be non-reactive. So what are. What are some of the things that you think are most important and or anything that the listeners could do right away to like, look at their childhood and how they're how do they know?

How do you know if you're stuck in the cell? Danger response. There's no like there's no like, blood test. You're like, right. When you wake up in the morning, do you wake up feeling, a joy to live or looking forward to live, or do you wake up feeling in overwhelm and a vigilance?

That's one really common factor. Do you wake up in that? That state of like, oh my gosh, I've got this to do this, to do this, to do already? You know, feeling like there's just a lot going on and you haven't even got out of bed.

That's a nervous system that's already hyperactive. Are you somebody that rushes constantly, talks fast, can't slow down, can't take a breath, but somebody stuck in a sympathetic overdrive, which is a chronic stress.

That can look functional. Can look very functional. I'm just a busy person, a go getter, a doer. Are you a type A? You know, I type a workaholic. That is a chronic stress response.

Are you somebody who tends to say yes when you mean no, meaning you please a lot? That's also a chronic trauma. And stress response, trying to keep people's love at the expense of your own.

You know, are you are you constantly body scanning and noticing symptoms and running to Google to figure them out? That's a hyper vigilant limbic system.

Are you noticing that you are sensitive to to smells and to sounds? It's an overstimulated nervous system. So those are just a handful of things where you can kind of like, okay, I, I'm, I might be having an increased, fight or flight system going on.

I might be stuck in a bit of, you know, that that sympathetic overdrive, the trauma response will learn such good questions. And would you put also someone who reacts to every supplement or food or a cake?

Yeah, that's the definite sign right there. When your body literally perceives everything as threat, that little bit of vitamin C, the little taste of this food, the smell of that.

It's actually not those those things. Yes, they're triggering you, but that's not the route. The route is on a cellular level. Your body has decided everything is a threat.

And when you can recognize that it's it's an internal perspective on life that needs to get shifted, then you're able to make progress and be able to add those things back in versus getting hyper focused and all the things outside of you looking for what's safe and what's what's not safe outside.

It's a deep life perspective that often as a child, the environment wasn't safe and the body starts getting confused. And when you grow up, you have another stress response and some perfect storm.

And all of a sudden the environment isn't safe. But now it's food and it's chemicals and it's sound and it's smell. Okay. And I'm sure a lot of people can relate to a lot of these things.

So we're, we're on a good you know the thing is that there's solutions. There's hope. There's a it's not a state you need to be stuck in forever. So what are some of your favorite things whether easy to implement or complicated and need no further.

But that helped to regulate the nervous system. Open up the cells and, you know, bring back that because I always because I had a very dysregulated nervous system and I no longer do.

And it's like I, I was it's like I just described it as like peace. It's like the ability to enjoy doing nothing and breathe and just feel flow. Yeah. So, so it's, you know, it's stopping at a red light and enjoying stopping at a red light and not like, so that there's definitely solutions.

And so and you have created like a whole system. So it's like you don't have to scramble and you actually can plug it in and get the, the which you need because am I correct in saying like, what I may need may not be what you need as far as.

Yeah. We're all drawn to different tools. But your question is a good one. And first of all I want to say that when you're dysregulated it's actually hard to sit and calm down.

It's very difficult because the nervous system feels that you're safer being vigilant and stress. And so when you try to sit and do calming things, it might feel even worse.

Your brain gets used to and habituated to feeling on guard. You know, rushing and and not able to slow down. So you're going to have to go through a withdrawal of stress.

So I usually like to give you three principles. The principles are going to be elevate, breathe and move. Every day. Something in those categories. Find tools in those categories elevating your mood.

How can you elevate your mood? Today we teach brain retraining practices to elevate the mood. I teach other tricks, but what do you love to do? Do you like to to sing and dance? Do you like to cook?

Do you like to? You know, what is it you like to do that that helps you to elevate your mood? I'm making a point to do that, to find ways of looking and noticing beauty all around you.

How can you elevate your mood? Breathing. Breathing is one of the most direct ways to target our autonomic nervous system, and to literally shift in a few seconds.

Your biochemical state breathwork. And you can learn about this in my program, or all over YouTube or Google. Lots of breathwork. There are so many different types.

Play with them. Pick one that you like, just doing some mindful breathwork every day, even if it's just two minutes. That's a start. And finding something that that works.

Box breathing. You can Google that. It's very simple. It's just, breathing in 4 to 5 seconds, holding 4 to 5 seconds, breathing out 4 to 5 seconds. Holding 4 to 5 seconds, whatever.

Whatever feels comfortable for you. Some people, they can literally only breathe in two seconds, two seconds, two seconds. And it's like their breath cycle is so rapid they can't even do five seconds comfortably.

So that's box breathing in a nutshell. You can Google that one. Movement. Movement is essential. We need to flow to here. We need to flow our lymph, our blood.

We need to move. Even if you're bedbound, I teach people how to move in their bed, whether it's just simple yin yoga and just gentle chai tai chi to gong type movements in bed or an athlete, you know, walking and running every day.

We need to move. So those are the principles I would start with living, breathe and move and find tools that fit your personality and lifestyle. And I find I like to cycle through different things.

Right. Because sometimes I like doing the same tool every day. Then it starts to turn into, like, a chore. And I want it to be joyful. Right. So I think it's important. It's not a to do.

Right. It's something that you're like, I get to do this. I'm excited to do this. I love what you said about, like when you get up in the morning, are you excited about your day?

Like this gift of another day. We're not guaranteed. Other day. It's always like this little magic miracle like oh here I am. And getting ready to get ready to go in the world.

You know. And so what do you think are the biggest misconceptions about regulating the nervous system. Yeah. The top one is this, this means your illness is all in your head and it's invalidating.

And it feels humiliating sometimes to tell our family and friends what I'm doing for my illness that I've been telling you about is to regulate my nervous system.

For some people, that feels humiliating because it means that somehow they were making it all up, which isn't true. But a lot of times when we've come from trauma and we've been invalidated and gaslit and people say, I don't see anything wrong, then you all of a sudden get some illness, and now they're all saying, I don't see anything wrong.

And then you have to say, well, I'm doing my own nervous system regulation. It can feel very invalidating. And there's a part of us a part of a lot of people that feel very resistant to saying, this is what I need to work on for my mold, illness, Lyme disease, etc., etc., etc.

because in some level of our psyche they think it means that they are. They did it to themself and it's it's like their fault in some way. And it's not that at all.

You've got to understand that regulating your nervous system is how you influence almost every disease process that you've got going on. Any hormone issue, whatever.

It's not anything to be ashamed of. It's that autonomic nervous system connects to everything in our body. It's the best medicine you can take for your very real situation.

You know, it's not fake. It's not made up just because you're, targeting the nervous system. So that's one thing. The second thing is that we are highly addicted to dopamine and to scrolling and to distraction.

And to do these practices means that you're going to have to pattern interrupt your lifestyle, carving out time for you to focus on you. Very difficult for most of us to do to change our habits, to do things differently, to slow down or to stop distracting, etc.

so that those would be the two things that keep people from doing this. The invalidation of doing that if they have chronic illness, and changing their dopamine addictive behaviors to carve out time to regulate me. I have a few questions.

So are you saying that you can still scroll and regulate your nervous system? You can do almost anything in moderation, as long as the majority of your day is spent in regulated states.

Now you know, we all have to be on the internet for things here and there. These days it seems so. Recognize that when you're doing that, it's just regulating.

So if you've been doing that, there's a just regulate. You are actively just regulating yourself in some way. And maybe what can you do to regulate? You know, maybe sometimes people will do regulation by looking for funny baby or cat videos or whatever.

So I could see like maybe it's not all this regulating, but, in general being on the computer, I mean, you know what I'm talking about as far as just regulated type of scrolling.

So what are suggestions that are healthy for raising dopamine and that dopamine is our reward center. And if you have rewards that take more effort to get two meaning long term goals, that's a much more healthy dopamine pathway then I feel lonely.

I want to see if somebody messaged me. So I get that quick hit of I matter to somebody. That's a short term instant dopamine and the the brain gets addicted to it and it wants quick hits, quick hits, quick hits, which just drain our energy over time.

So we want to have longer term dopamine. Producing activities of maybe making a to do list of the things you've needed to get done checking them off. That makes some really good dopamine.

Getting consistent with the daily exercise practice, and noticing that you're showing up for yourself every day. That's a great form of dopamine. That's that's more healthy.

Love that. And then going back to the first thing you said. So I'm curious what your opinion is on if like I feel like we should come out of the womb and there should be like a here is how to regulate your nervous system with plants and so because there isn't or at least not yet like do you feel like nervous system like nervous system regulation is not like an end goal.

Like, do you feel like it's something that has to be done forever? And if you don't keep up with it, you can dysregulated easily. Unfortunately, now with our lifestyle, I do think it needs to be part of our lifestyle.

We don't live off from, you know, 5G and non you know, we don't have food free from toxins. We we're in a fast paced environment for the most part. Now if you're living out in the country, you're probably fine.

I know, you know you know, I have all this stuff going on. You're out on the phone all day or work in the fields, but for the most part, the way that we're getting constant stimulation, we're going to need to do something to help our nervous systems come into balance.

I think whether that's just daily meditation walks in nature, whatever, these are lifestyle tools that should have been taught in kindergarten. You're right.

But as we parents learn them, we can teach the next generation because we didn't learn them. We didn't. We didn't know it. We're just starting to it. Like you said, this is becoming big now.

It should have been big a long time ago. But yeah, it's a lifestyle. I have to do stuff every day. I'm on the computer a lot. I'm running a business that's very dysregulated to in a lot of ways.

So I've got to do things to regulate. It's not like the same as when I was super sick. It's not like I'm spending all day doing that, but it's it's actually the way that I live is more of a nervous system, regulation, lifestyle.

Have I just been active for an hour? Okay. I need to go outside for five minutes and do a little qigong. I just talked for an hour straight before I go and answer some emails.

Oh wow. I was talking a lot right now. After this, I'm just going to breathe for a couple minutes and just slow my breath down. You know, it's just noticing the nervous system, the state as you're living and attending to it.

So it is a lifestyle of attending to the needs of your body. I love that. Yeah. I was, as you know, I'm building a big clinic, and right now I work out of my house, and I my backyard, which is nothing fancy, but my chair and my backyard with the sun is like my nervous system.

You know, I'm always in and out there in between my appointments. And I was like, I guess I'm going to be like, sitting in the parking lot of my new clients.

Make like a little oasis in the parking lot. People be like, there's that weird doctor still sitting out there breathing, but it's so important that way.

I always say, like, one of the best things to do is like, nothing right is to have blank spaces, calendar where you can just so important. I, I stop, waking up with an alarm.

I stopped making early morning appointments so that I can just regulate and go through my flow in the morning is, the best medicine personal gifts I gave to myself. So, the other question I want to ask is, If people regulated their nervous systems, like if we lived in this beautiful world where everyone was regulating, do you think there'd be a need for vitamin C and supplement?

It's I actually, I actually don't I mean, it, you know, I think that our body, when given the right ingredients of love and safety, there's this intelligence, there's an intelligence in nature.

They don't need supplements to grow. I mean, maybe if they're in really terrible soil, I guess. So it maybe it depends on what we are eating. If our, our food becomes super nutrient deficient, maybe what is becoming nutrient deficient.

Yeah. But I do believe that that there is this Y system that knows exactly what each person needs when we are in flow, when we are in love, when we are in our joy.

I think that intelligence fills the body. I mean, we see so many people who have these stories of near-death experiences where their body just heals from all this stuff so quickly.

How how did they reverse all that organ cancer like in days? Well, some of these stories, you know, and it's like that intelligence. So if it can do that, I just think, you know, there's a lot of things that it can do when it's in harmony.

Yeah. That's what I think. Yeah. I it's something I, I think about a lot, I think about, you know, regulating our nervous system and the power of then our mind when we're not in that fear, when we open and receptive and excited like that changes our physiology and and it's a lot of it's not something like we can snap and have happen.

Right. Because it's a lot of patterning and, and systems and how we were raised and what society. You know, even in my practice, a lot of patients, you know, they're coming to see me.

They want natural solutions, but they still want the solution in the bottle. And so many of the things you, you know, go and take a walk and breathe, meditate and get some nature like to me, I, I'm like, that's the medicine.

That's the medicine. You know, there's a reason they call them supplements, right? They're just supplementing. But we're kind of backward in what we, we put up.

And it's still. And so I, I was curious, I was like, I have to ask her this. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, gosh, it's so hard to know because we just don't have that society, do we.

Yeah. We we. And so it's finding a balance. But I feel like the more are, the more you can step into this nervous system regulation, the less important the other things the and we do it is, you know, we have so many toxins coming at us, seen and unseen.

And, you know, it's the human gig is, you know, it's it's it's not it's not an easy one. Right. There's a lot of and the society we live in. And so I don't want, you know, it's just something to really ponder, the importance of it.

And so, playfulness, we don't think of playing our way to, to health. And I am very fortunate I have these two beautiful and two year old and a four year old granddaughters, and I, I get to play a lot and, and be back in that state.

Of watching childhood wonder and curiosity. And so I'm curious where that do you make in primal trust? Do you make people that, play is like, you got to go get roller skates or jump rope and talk back?

Yeah, it's a good question. We really help people to try to discover who their true self is, who that child would have been if they hadn't been any limits or trauma or programing.

And often when people get in touch with that, they get in touch with what they want to play. It's just the thing that comes. It's like, that is our nature, this playful child.

And so I do think it's the essence of what's important. And I had an experience a few months ago where I, I wear that aura ring, usually where it measures your heart rate variability.

Oh yeah, I usually have mine on. It's charging right now. Anyway, for the first like several months of wearing it, I was never able to get above like 60 to 70.

And then I went to Disneyland, and I had never been there. I went there with my kids, and I just wanted to give them what I dreamed of giving them when I was, when they were little. And then I was sick and I couldn't.

So I like, gave it my all. I played so hard, I felt like I did this, I had this healing repair with them that I had wanted. My heart rate variability went over 100 and stayed there for maybe like a couple weeks.

It was teetering right around there and I was like, wow. Like just from one day of play. It did so much for me. And since then, like, when I was just in London with my daughter, we had a really playful day.

It went skyrocketed way over 100, you know, and I was like, okay, this is the mad it this is my medicine at least. And, yeah. So it was a nice, like, biofeedback piece of what they did for me.

So yeah. Plays a good thing. It's hard for a lot of us who grew up in trauma. It's really normal to be actually a have an aversion to it. So I just want to speak to that because I did it actually gave me anxiety a lot when my kids were little, I it was I wasn't able to play as a child.

So allowing myself to play as an adult was difficult. So I want to just speak to that, because it's not natural for some of us who've had a lot of adversity, and we got to teach herself to play.

And having grandkids and other kids to help show us is a great way to do it. Yeah, I'm, I'm I count my blessings and I, I, I once saw this video and it stuck with me.

And I can't think of the name of it right now. And I don't want to go searching through my playlist, but it was a it was these old people, like, playing and they were like all set to this music and they were all dressed up.

They had costumes on and they were stomping in the mud puddle, and they were even doing like ring and run and and it just stuck with me so much that, like, I don't know when it happens, when we decide, like, we're too old to play now, like because we innately are born with that just desire to play.

I mean, I watch them, they play all day long. It's all they do. It's their work, right? And they are us. They they, you know, the little girl, the little boy listening in that.

So I think it's do you do a lot of I guess this would be my last question because we're running out of time and I could talk to you forever and ever and ever.

Do you do a lot of is the inner child a big piece of what you're doing? Yeah. Our level two program is focused more on developing a relationship with parts of you, including your inner child, but also the protective parts of you the pleaser, the perfectionist, the controller.

But that inner child is the core. And we kind of get there by getting to know these protective parts all around it. So it's a little bit of what we call inner work, but that inner child is that that essence, that we all have this, this part of us that just has a desire to live and be alive and experience and has a desire for all and wonder, and it wants a relationship with us and wants us to spend time with it and, and do art or music or whatever.

And so finding and cultivating that relationship is a big part of this overall healing and ultimately the breathwork and brain retraining and all of that is trying to get us to calm down enough to find that.

And be that and, experience that aspect of us, which is really why we're here, right? To discover our true self. Yeah. And connect the journey of a lifetime, the most important journey.

So, where can the listeners find out more about Primal Trust? And is it you said like that was your level two? How many levels is it? We have three levels.

The first levels are the nervous system tools. The second level is like the trauma healing, true self-discovery, and the third level is just taking these same concepts and applying them to relationships.

Getting back to work, boundaries, just ongoing exploration. People are there sometimes for just level one because that's all they need, and sometimes they stay and they really just like being part of the community.

You can find us at Primal Trust, our org. We also have a lot of free content under our free resources. We've got ebooks and webinars and all sorts of things.

We have a great Instagram channel and a YouTube channel full of free content as well. It's primal trust official. And yeah, that'd be the best way to find me.

And how long does it take to go through your program? Yeah. So a level one takes, we, we encourage people to take at least two months to go through level one.

Level two, I encourage you to spend 2 to 4 months, maybe five months. Take your time with it, especially if you're working with a lot of trauma level three.

It can just be ongoing or it's again, it's pretty optional. But definitely that that first level, one process of at least two months is what I recommend for most people.

Okay. Well, Doctor Still's endorsed highly recommend. You know, as I started the conversation by saying, you know, we want to have balanced hormones, but we want to have them in a body that has regulation and that it's happy and that you are that you are taking those balanced hormones and going out and living your best life and having your best relationships and community and experiences.

And so, it's such a beautiful time. I always, you know, by now I say menopause with parentheses around the pores and all about pausing. And so it's time to pause because we've been very busy up until this time.

But, to pause and collect those pieces of ourselves. And so taking some time to give yourself the gift to do a training like this is just so invaluable.

So I, I adore you, I, I love the work. I know you're helping so many people, and I'm just really grateful that you came and shared, with the audience here at the summit.

So thank you for that. And thank you, everyone for for being here, for taking time to, to educate and learn what you can do for yourself that, you know, is something I like that deeply to you, that is, you know, very commendable and honorable.

And I thank you for making the summit a part of your health care journey and your hormonal health and harmony wellness. So thanks for being here. Go check out Kathleen.

Go check out Primal Trust. Lots of good stuff there that we can all use. So we'll be back with another talk.