From Hormonal Chaos To Clarity: The Natural Approach To Thriving In Midlife

Hello. Hello. Welcome back to Hormones and Mental Health Summit. Overcoming anxiety, depression and ADHD in women. I'm your co-host stuck to share and stills.

Always a pleasure and my honor and my privilege to be here with you all. To have these Life-Changing conversations that can help you on your hormonal journey.

And today, I'm super excited. I have a dear friend and colleague, another rock star naturopathic physician and doctor, Michelle Sands. She is the the brains behind Glow Natural Wellness.

And as I was thinking, I was like, looking at you and like, I'm like, you are glowing. You're so beautiful. You're like the embodiment of your brand. And she's an expert in hormones and everything.

Women. She's been recognized by all the major outlets and Oprah and ABC. She's been doing this, you know, she has her own story where she has overcome infertility and, autoimmunity and early menopause diagnosis.

So she can relate. She's been there herself. As I said, she runs Glow Natural Wellness, which probably a lot of you listening have already heard of. And they offer accessible, plant based bioidentical hormone replacement and personal care products.

And health coaching and nutrition and all the things you need to have a happy hormonal journey. So she is also a sponsor of this summit and so without our sponsors, we wouldn't be able to put on summits like this.

So we want to give her lots of love and lots of thank you for for participating, for sponsoring, and then for taking time out of her extremely busy schedule to be here and share her wisdom with us.

So welcome to the summit and I'm so excited you're here. Thank you so much, soccer. So that I just want to commend you for taking the time to put on an event like this, because I don't think we can raise awareness enough about mental health and menopause.

And so that's one of the reasons why when we heard about it, we're like, we want to make sure this event goes big because it is such, such an issue. I like we all know what menopause is, what most people do, but a lot of times we think it is just hot flashes and night sweats and physical problems.

But what we can't see, the mental health issues are sometimes more devastated than anything else. And so I think this is such an important event, and I just want to thank you for putting it on.

Yeah. So thank you. And you're you're 100% right because we we definitely are on that same mission to change the conversation. And that menopause is not just about night sweats or hot flashes, which is what we've been we've been told over the years.

So why don't we just jump in and tell me, you know what? What do you see with the women you work with, and how is their mental health being affected? And what are you doing to change that for them?

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, such a big question. But you know, one of the biggest thing I see with the women I work with is the blaming of themselves for mood issues, for brain fog, for feeling anxious or for feeling weepy, or for being depressed and feeling like they're doing something wrong.

They're not eating good enough. They're not exercising hard enough. They're not doing something. They're not meditating hard enough. And because it's not well known that, like our hormones are really our body's emotional regulators, like estrogen, the hormone that we know the most about, people think estrogen is the female hormone.

It happens to be like our energizing hormone or kind of our happy hormone. It's closely related to serotonin. And then progesterone is our calming hormone, kind of our nature's Valium.

And so when they're balanced then you have a nice balance of happy, energized and calm and relaxed. When they're off balance, that can cause just devastating mood issues.

You can get definitely irritated, you can get weepy, you can get anxious, and then it just snowballs with all the other menopause symptoms not sleeping, having hot flashes, joint pain, brain fog, weight gain, all of that just snowballs together.

And women are blindsided because we have conversations. We go through puberty. Usually a parent or school or somebody will tell us what's going to happen to our body.

Hopefully when you get pregnant, we have the what to expect when you're expecting, we have what to expect when we have a baby. It's no surprise that there's going to be a human that comes out of your body when you go through perimenopause.

Most people even don't even know what that is the time leading up to menopause and it is just nobody tells you anything. In fact, you go to your doctor and you say, I'm feeling weepy, I'm anxious.

I don't have any energy. I'm gaining weight for no reason. I look at my husband. I can't stand him. Even though I love him. Everything irritates me. And the doctor just says, oh, well, you know, I just need to relax, have a glass of wine.

Here's an antidepressant, maybe a birth control pill. Nobody is like, oh, you know, Sharon, don't worry. This happens to everybody. Your hormones are simply declining.

Your progesterone is going down. This is why you're not comedy more. This is why you're anxious at night. Your estrogen is fluctuating wildly. That's why sometimes you're, like, laughing.

And then the next moment you want to cry. And women really think that they have a mental health problem where it's not fixable and they have to be put on antidepressants or anti-anxiety medication for the rest of their life, while the real root cause is just being dismissed.

And it's well documented that hormones like acetone, progesterone, even testosterone I didn't say testosterone, but very important hormone. Too little of it. You feel kind of like you.

You're like, yeah, I'm nothing really excites me. And then too much of it, you can be very angry and irritable. So when these are out of balance, we should be first saying, oh, let's look at your 40 years old.

Let's like your hormones. It's likely your hormones are getting out of balance and we can start. Should be the first line of treatment before antidepressants are needed.

And for women who are already have a history of depression that are already on antidepressant medications, the research shows that they have a much higher chance of having more devastating effects of this condition when they have those hormone declines and menopause, so women should be offered hormone replacement therapy as a first line defense, not after years and years of begging.

The statistics are a woman has to go to the doctor's office between 6 and 10 visits before they'll even start the conversation about hormone replacement therapy, which is such a disservice.

It's heartbreaking. My heart breaks, like when I see patients and when I hear their struggles and stories of just what you're saying the statistics are showing, I can say, yes, I see that statistic.

It's it's enraging, it's sad. It's all the things. And is there a book like I remember the What to Expect when You're expecting? Is there a what to expect when you're when you're menopausal that.

There is now? So in the past 3 or 4 years, we have a great network of very hormone literate doctors. There's a book called Estrogen Matters, which is written by a oncologist and dataflow researcher.

And that is fabulous because that debunks almost every myth about allergen causing cancer, estrogen causing heart attacks, and causing all these diseases that in hindsight, when you look there, real research, actual estradiol and all the hormones that our body makes actually prevents Alzheimer's, dementia, diabetes, seven different types of cancer, including breast cancer, heart disease, and helps you live on average seven years longer, so reduces risk of all cause mortality.

But so this book really debunks many of those myths of someone's listening. Their doctor has said they can't use hormones because they have a family history of breast cancer, or someone in their family has had a stroke, or they have a risk of heart disease.

That's wrong. So estrogen matters. A great book and then some other great books out there. I wrote a book called, hormone Harmony over 35. That is kind of a basic explain what the hormones do, explain what you might be experiencing as symptoms.

There's a great wisdom there. And then at the end, there is a 21 day plan to naturally, holistically use food and lifestyle to get your hormones as balanced as they can be without going to hormone replacement therapy.

But the truth is, even if you're on hormone replacement therapy, lifestyle matters. So you can be have your hormones at the perfect level. But if you are not supporting your body with nourishing food, if you're not getting all your nutrients and amino acids and proteins and healthy fats, if you're not sleeping, if you're not exercising and moving your body the way it was supposed to be, then if you're not doing some type of mindfulness and some stress reduction because we live in a stressful world, they are not going to have optimal physical or mental health even with hormone replacement therapy.

So that's a really important part of it. As a natural position in natural medicine, we always have to remember it's not just the pill for an ill philosophy that we have in conventional medicine, where we're just going to cover up your symptom with a medication.

It really is about supporting the body, restoring what can't be made again by the body, which is our usually our estrogen and progesterone, and then also supporting the body through midlife and beyond with healthy lifestyle practices.

So that's a book. And then Doctor Mary Claire Haber wrote a great book called The New Menopause, which I think is a really, really great book because she really explains from a, conventional medical doctor, Ob-Gyn how she was not taught anything about hormones or menopause, and they actually used to call women who came in and complained about hormone related symptoms.

They call them whiny women in the hospital. So I love hearing from conventional doctors that have kind of like woken up to the fact that our regular insurance based healthcare system, most of the doctors are not trained in menopause.

Even your Ob-Gyn, who is your female doctor, the doctor that we feel that we should be going to for all women's health issues. They are experts at pregnancy, at childbirth, that postpartum, at things like endometriosis and TMD and period problems.

But when it gets to the point where your hormones are naturally declining in very fast menopause, they don't have any education, in their normal practice now they can go after school, they graduate school, and they can learn and go for a continuing education and get that education.

But most of, about the statistic is 80% of your conventionally trained doctors say that they do not even feel comfortable treating women in menopause or dealing with hormone replacement therapy.

So it's no wonder that women are not getting the help that they need. And now, I'm not saying that every single woman has to be on hormone replacement therapy, but I think every single woman should have the opportunity to make that decision for herself and have the clear and real facts about what's happening to her body and then what her options are.

And there are so many options nowadays that are safe, effective and plant based, nontoxic. There's so many options out there that women can use to actually feel good.

Naturally and not have to resort to taking medications that they probably don't need. I was you kind of. I was thinking I was going to ask you, like, what would you say?

Because I hear a lot, you know, I want to be naturals, so I don't want to take hormones. And I'm just curious what your thought process is on that and the benefit of taking hormones over just doing lifestyle or what, your philosophy.

Yeah, that is such a good question because as a natural pathway position, I came out of school and that was my opinion. I was like, I am not going to take any permanence.

I mean, naturally, which is great when I was in my 30s, because that's exactly what you should be doing before you start to decline. But it's our hormonal systems are not really meant for us to live past 45, 50 years old, which was the life expectancy hundreds of years ago.

However, now we have modern medicine, we have sanitation, we have all these things that are allowing us to live on average, 80 by 80. I think it's 88 years old.

Is the women's new average between 85 and 88. So that means half of our life, because have perimenopause starts ten years before menopause. Average age of menopause is 51.

So let's say 41. So it's half your life. You're living in a state of hormonal decline. We can't eat. We can't eat enough berries or any food. There's no food that we can eat.

There's no amount of exercise we can do, no matter of prayer, meditation, yoga that will actually bring back those hormones that every single cell in our body is need.

So that it means that in order to live optimally in order to have that full function of all of our systems, those hormones are necessary and needed now used to be back in the early 2000s that the hormones were synthetic.

They were derived from things like horse urine. There's something called conjugated equine estrogen. And that was actually, pregnant horses. Their urine would be where they'd extract the estrogen from.

And that was the most commonly prescribed estrogen on the market. Like back in, like the 1990s, the 2000. And that's the one that they found like some issues with and that study the Women's Health Initiative study.

And then the progesterone wasn't even progesterone. It was a progesterone acetate, which is a really, really not good substance. It kind of looks like progesterone, but it doesn't bad things in the body.

That's kind of where hormones got the negative rap from. And I thought that's what hormones were. Then I realized that there are hormones that are made from plants, there's wild yam and there's soy.

And you can get organic wild yam, organic soy. They have a component called dioxin, and it has a very similar chemical structure to our actual hormone.

So when I say that, think back to on a fifth grade chemistry class, you had all those little like octagons that were stuck together with the little tails, the carbons and the hydrogens, and that is the chemical structure of something.

And so the dioxin, if you just eat a while, the, not you're not going to get any hormones. But if you take that dioxin out into a lab and you remove some of those proteins and the hydrogens, you actually end up with the exact chemical structure of our estrogen, like our estradiol, our real, our progesterone, our testosterone and our DHEA.

And that is natural. It's not it's not genetically modified. They're just removing some things. And then that is what the base of the hormone is. And then you also have what else is in the hormone preparation.

So whether you're using a gel or cream or a patch or a pill, you have to look at what else is in there because that also matters an additional ingredient.

So in our practice and in actual wellness, we actually manufacture our own bioidentical plant based hormones that are completely toxin free and not tested on animals.

Don't have any plastics, caravans, adhesives. Petra, chemicals. All those things matter to me as a national Catholic physician. So that was what I needed to do to want to take hormones myself, because I wanted it to be like just like my skincare that I use.

I don't want endocrine disruptors or plastics or petrochemicals in there, and I don't want to in my hormones either. But I have that same feeling like I don't want to do anything until I realized that in order for as a woman to have optimal mental health, physical health, emotional health, heart health, all the things I was going to need to have those hormones.

So why would I get to spend my life, like going to the gym, eating healthy, meditating, doing all the things that I wasn't going to have, the raw materials that I needed.

So when you think about it, as someone who is diabetic, we're not going to tell them not to take insulin because it's they need it for life. If someone has a thyroid condition, we're not going to tell them not to take thyroid hormone because they need support.

Life and women's health is the same. If someone has estrogen deficiency, progesterone deficiency, testosterone deficiency, we should replace those that she can have the quality of life that she deserves and everything gets better.

Her workouts are more effective. Her relationships are better. She can think better so she can actually excel at her job. Her confidence goes up. It really affects every single area of our life, not just getting rid of hot flashes, not just dealing with battle dryness or low libido or painful steps or weight gain.

Those are important. But looking at both the long term health risks, the heart disease, diabetes, Alzheimer's, the cancer's prevention of that, but also our just our everyday life.

Everything that we do and the people around us are affected by our hormones. And it's really, really important that women understand that it is natural and it's it's it's essential in my vote.

I love talking to you because I like to sit back. I'm like, yes, just what she said. Like we were so aligned in how we we think so I want to go back because you brought up a good point about because I learned this.

I mean, I've been practicing 23 years. And I remember like early on when I first started practicing and I was, you know, in my early 30s, I wasn't thinking about menopause yet, but I all of a sudden had this big menopause practice.

And but I wasn't really seeing what the women were taking. And then one day, like a patient just happened to come in and she's like, I have a question about my, you know, bioidentical progesterone capsule.

And I was like, what is that like, why is it artificially colored? Oh my God. What about you know, like, you know, I just assumed oh it's bioidentical.

It's going to be. And so I learned vast. Wow. We got to really pay attention. And so I'm curious to hear because I was talking about this with another naturopath recently, like a lot of women take the patch.

But what is the detriment of like the adhesive and the patch? Yes, that I'm glad you asked that because that was the one thing that I have been looking into.

So right now, like I'm actually trying to formulate an adhesive that is nontoxic, safe, that doesn't have any petrochemicals in it because it does have like basically gasoline is what you're putting on your skin every day.

So we don't really know what the long term effects are. But in my book, if it's something that we're going to use once or twice or you get some type of infection, you have taken medication for a week or two weeks, that's one thing.

But if it's something that I'm voluntarily putting on my body every single day, I'd prefer not to have petrochemicals in it. I don't know, it just doesn't seem like a good idea.

I don't have research on that level of petrochemicals, of what the effects over years and years are. But I do know that there are other options. There's, looking at pressure sensitive bamboo as a possible option.

So my goal is hopefully within the next year to have that formulated so I can make it available to even some big pharma if they want it, so that women can actually have a nontoxic patch option.

Because I think the idea that patches of anything, you don't have to remember to take anything, you don't have to be aware of creams or anything on. So you just have the patch and you can actually cut it down if you want last for months or so.

The patches is great, and some women love the patch. And so if you're on the packaging, you love it. I'm not going to tell you you're doing a bad thing because you're actually better than yourself by having hormones.

But I believe there is a better way that isn't invented yet, but I'm hoping to be part of that solution. So personally, I don't use the patch for that reason.

So I use hormone creams and oils instead. Because I feel like I want as less toxins in my body as I possibly can. I do live in the world, and so I am exposed to toxins on a regular basis.

But I have my detoxification systems that are working great. So, yeah, that's kind of my take on that. There is not yet in in the world a patch that is nontoxic at this point.

That's cool that. Yeah, I didn't know that. I didn't know that's cool. Of course you're already thinking. Yeah, yeah. I'm always trying to figure out, like, how can I make things better for women?

And I know that not everybody wants to use a cream or oil or sublingual. So the patch is a great idea. I just it needs a little tweaking. And I think that's how this is how things happen.

Like, this is how things get better if somebody has to lead the charge. Right. And what about us? And I 3,000% agree. What about also though, can you speak to estradiol and your like the patches only estradiol and what are your thoughts on shrill and biased?

Because I know there's been a lot of noise out there. Because okay, so either I see like there's two cats and there's the what's give your by the estradiol and the Astra.

And there's two reasons why people do that. One reason that I've seen as people say, well Astra, all is safer. And so we want to give you the thrill to offset some of the estrogen that I don't agree with that because I don't think estradiol is unsafe.

I feel it is safe, but the body does make both of those hormones. And so I think when you're replacing it, it's nice. Replace it together. S3 all does have some great benefits for, auto immunity.

And so we do see a lot of women who, as they get to perimenopause and menopause, have more tendencies to other immune issues. And so the ideal is protective in that auto immune response.

So that's why I like to include it. We do offer both in our practice. Some women just want the Astra dial, some women are okay with the Astra and I. That's my preference to give both.

But some practitioners will reduce the amount of Astra dial to include the Astra. I will never do that. I'm going to give you the dose that you need of Astra dial.

And then I'm just going to add ons and Astra as a helper. So that's kind of like what you have to look at. Like are they are they lowering. Then I should have they're giving me to give me Astra that.

You don't want that you want the dose of Astra dial that you need because Astra dial is the it's the part of the astronaut, the estrogen that does the most things.

When we think about reduction of hot flashes, when we think about, you know, brain health, heart health, breast health, when we think about energy are all the things like that's usually Astra dial and a little bit of Austria.

Astra is also great for vaginal dryness as well and for moisture overall, I there are some research I'm seeing that is also great for, the elasticity of your arteries and veins as well.

So some research is coming out about that as well. But I think that you can go either way. There's not a right or wrong. I do offer both in my practice for that reason, but anyone with any autoimmune tendencies, I think using that combo cream of Rhode Island Astra is really amazing.

So I know that women are like, hello Doctor Sans, like, what could you give? Like, I know your can, but what is your approximate like Astra dial dosing just to give them an I, It just it's so varied.

I can literally have a woman who's my exact height in weight that it's like me works out like ideal and of I might need a quarter of what she needs. It's it's crazy because there's no rhyme or reason to who needs more or less.

So I would say anywhere between like a quarter of 1,000,000 gram to 2mg is generally the range that we see most commonly some women. I'll try to give them what I think is like a standard dose, and they're just like, oh my God, my heart is racing.

And they're like, oh my God, I hardly gave you anything. But when it does, different women are sensitive and different women need their like fast processors of those events.

So there is no like I don't believe there's a standard test. A lot of doctors do. You have a standard dose because they don't really want to take the time to talk to you and see like how you feel.

So just putting on the same dose as everybody else. And that's oftentimes like some women say, oh, I see the hormones. And they didn't work right because you were on the right dose or the right delivery method or right combination of hormones.

And so it's not a one size fits all at all. And even a lot of women, as they kind of go through their journey, they'll have to adjust their dose. And that's completely fine as long as you're working with a practitioner who has an open line of communication with you.

And they should and they should answer your questions. And if you feel like, hey, you know, I want to try a little bit more, they should be open to that.

Or if there's a reason why they're like, you can't go any higher, maybe they'll explain that to you. But ultimately it's your body and you should be kind of the the mastermind behind what you want for yourself with your practitioner as a guide.

So yeah, so that's kind of how I feel. But there is no like one dose like this is the dose that does it. It'd be really easy if that was the way it worked.

But yeah, yeah, I mean yeah I know right. We'd all be like on vacation all the time. Everyone gets 2.5mg of this and one milligram of this and that's it.

Yeah. And it is, it's it always is so interesting to me. Right. Because there are there's some women you could take these teeny tiny bits and it has like this huge there.

Yeah. Have any pro labs and like there are are higher than the layer that's on the higher dose. And I'm like what's going on. So you really I think one of the things that I hope you all really heard Doctor Sands say is like, you need to find someone who's going to listen to you, who's not just doing the same thing for everyone who is going to work with you.

You are you are the you are the owner, right? 24 over seven and your body. We get the privilege of seeing you for an office visit here and there or whatever.

And, you know, use us as guides. But you, you first and foremost know your body better than anybody. That's super important, doctor sales, because I think especially in our generation, we were brought up to be like good patients at the doctor said something.

We were supposed to do it and not question it. And, you know, you don't like ask the doctor like why he's doing something, but that has to go away. Like the new healthcare, the new way healthcare should be.

That is, you should be in charge of your health care like it is your ultimate responsibility to take care of your own health and as practitioners, we are here to guide you.

We are here to facilitate. We can give you the tools. But yes, I mean, I think that everyone should be an active participant in their health care and not be ashamed to question and also not be afraid to fire your doctor if they're not listening to you.

It's like a relationship. It's like dating, like they don't listen to you if they don't give you what you need for support, you need to find another person, right?

And so there's plenty of like, amazing doctors out here, probably many of them on this event that like their whole reason for like showing up every day is to make you feel better.

And so that's really what it should be. Yeah. And we learn, you know, we learn so much from our patients, right? I mean yes every day. Yeah. So when they ask questions and I will be the first one to say I don't always know the answer, but I will find out for you and then I will learn.

You will learn and everyone will benefit. Exactly. I was just. And always like it still does. Like make me question when, you know, like, let's say I'm working with a patient who's dealing with cancer and, you know, they go natural and their cancer goes into remission and they go back to their in college just and and always blows my mind.

Like, why doesn't the oncologist call me to say what did you do. Like I would learn because if I'm on the other side of that, I'm like, can I have your doctor's number?

Like I'd like to talk to them and see what they did so I can help more people to. But that's such a very rare thing that happens. And so you do you want to I love your analogy. Right.

It's like dating. Yeah, fine. Find a doctor. You can have a good sane relationship with very good advice. So, we've got a few minutes left. Just any other words of wisdom?

Clinical pearls, tips for the women who are listening, who are dealing with mental health issues, who have been given an antidepressant, who've been told that's their only option, who've been handed the birth control pill.

What would you say to them? Yeah, I would definitely encourage them to get a second opinion to get their hormones tested. You these days, you do not even need to go to the doctor to get your hormones tested.

I don't know. Just those. If you offer hormone testing, we offer hormone testing right on our website that you could do at home, and you could at least know for yourself.

Are your heart as low or in a range that would cause some mental health issues and at least have the information. So when you do go to the doctor to like, hey, so I tested my hormones and I realized that my hormones are almost non-existent.

Isn't it true that that can cause some issues? I think just like knowing for yourself is so important, but any like research you can do? Don't make use of crazy on the research though, because some people will research their self set.

Because then if not, you feel like you have everything, so but just having some knowledge and understanding that your hormones are directly related to your brain health, your mood, your emotions, how you handle stress, your stress, resilience level, your ability to process memory, your ability to use logic.

All of these things are very much related to our hormones. They are emotional messengers. And so if you're having any type of even ADHD, even like lack of focus, irritability, any of these things, if you're noticing that you have rage, definitely consider getting your hormones tested no matter what your age is.

Because I was diagnosed with menopause at age 20 and so I was basically a premature menopause. Told that I would never have children. It was a false diagnosis because now we know that it's hard.

Primary ovarian insufficiency, meaning that they're just your ovaries aren't working sufficiently. But back then it was primary ovarian failure. It was the end. It was you're in menopause.

And I saw firsthand at that young age how poorly prepared our medical system is to handle women in a state of hormonal decline. I saw how women who were pregnant or getting, like, escorted into the office and oh my gosh, you're there.

And then there was me sitting there and they were just like, you hand me a prescription and tell me to go home. And so I can see how women are dismissed.

And it is it's only been since 1993 that women were even included in medical trials. And there is this whole just like history of women's health issues being dismissed, women being told they're just moody.

And you went back to the days of the Greek philosophers, it was thought that our uteruses were rotting. And that's why we were hysterical. It was making us crazy from the fumes from our uterus, and there was nothing that could be done.

And so there's this whole kind of like, I don't know, bad vibe around women's mental health and their hormones, and that it's like this. The end is the beginning of the end. Nothing can be done.

But we now know how mental health issues can be reversed, can be helped, can be improved with hormonal balance, and then also with nutrition, with exercise, with nourishing and supporting your body naturally so that it can actually behave the way it should and the way that you're going to feel good.

And so just now, my I guess my ending message is, you know, menopause is a life stage, not a life sentence. It's not the end. It's the end of your period.

That's not the end period. Right? So let us, it's it's just that I don't I never let anyone tell you that because there's always. I mean, we have women in their 80s and 90s in our practice who have been breast cancer survivors, who have had all the things, and they are just now starting to enjoy their life again.

And so no matter how old you are or how young you are, what you've experienced, there is hope. And the body can do amazing things. It can heal itself and it just needs our support.

That's that's kind of how I like to leave everybody with a hope. Yeah. I you know, there's so much hope. I know both Doctor Sands and I, you know, I have had patients who have thought they need to be institutionalized for breakdowns or, and like with the right hormone hormones, they feel like themselves again.

And so that's available for all of you with the right help. And I love that. I was just saying to my son, who runs my office, like, we've been getting so many women in their 70s and 80s lately, and I love it.

I'm like, at first it's super sad because you hear these stories like they've been suffering for ten, 15 years. No one's paid attention to them. But then you you treat them and like they're like they're back in their necks and they're feeling great in their brains, right?

I know. I know, I know. It's awesome. But it's sad that they had to wait so long. That's great that now the conversation is less taboo. So to talk about menopause before, like when they were in their 50s, like you just didn't talk about that.

God forbid you say you have vaginal dryness in public, right? That right. You know, but now it's the conversations in the media. We've got Oprah, we got Jennifer Aniston, Halle Berry, like Demi Moore.

They're all talking about menopause. So now it's okay. And now these ladies are like finally speaking up. And that's all we can hope for as that that becomes a new norm.

And women get help as early as they want it. Yes yes yes and yes. Well, we could do this for hours. So where where could the ladies learn more about you?

Yeah. So our website is Glow Natural wellness.com. But I am very active on Instagram, so I'm doctor Michelle Sands on Instagram. So if anyone listening has a question for me or wants to learn more about their hormones, definitely just reach out to me on Instagram and just say, hey, I saw your interview at Sharon Stills on the mental health and hormones or Menopause Summit, and then I'll know where you come from.

And, I'm happy to answer your questions or give you some support point in the right direction or just cheer you on in your own menopause journey. Awesome. Well, I gotta go follow you.

And and so I don't know that we're following each other. Hello natural wellness.com. Go check her out on Instagram. Again. Thank you for it's always it's always a pleasure to talk to someone where I'm just like I know what she's saying because we we think so alike.

Yeah from the same page. So thank you I mean, you're just such an inspiration and just such, a force in this field. So women are lucky that you're doing the work you're doing.

And thank you for being a part of the summit. Thank you so much.